What’s the place of mission in the Christian life? In this episode of the CCL podcast, Peter Orr speaks to Tania Snowdon. Tania and her husband Mike spent a number of years on the mission field in Spain and have since returned. Tania speaks about the whole mission experience—why you would go; how to decide whether to go; how to decide where to go; the training you receive before going; what it’s like when you arrive and start speaking the gospel into a new culture; how Christians can support missionaries; and what it’s like to return from the field and re-enter your home culture.
Links referred to:
- Upcoming ethics workshop: “Neurodivergence and the Christian life” (Wed 7 May 7:30pm)
- CMS (Church Missionary Society) Australia
- CMS Summer School
- IFES (International Fellowship of Evangelical Students)
- GBU (Grupos Bíblicos Universitarios)
- GBE (Grupos Bíblicos Estudiantiles)
- Preliminary Theological Certificate (PTC)
- Support the work of the Centre
Runtime: 32:20 min.
Transcript
Please note: This transcript has been edited for readability.
Introduction
Tony Payne: Well, hello again. Welcome to the Centre for Christian Living podcast. Great to be with you! If you recognise this voice, maybe it’s because you’ve been a long-term listener of the CCL podcast. It’s Tony Payne here, and I’m back this year as the Director of the Centre for Christian Living and the host of this podcast.
I was around back in 2017 when we kicked off this podcast, and I was the host for a few years. In the meantime since then, Chase Kuhn has been in the chair and, more recently, Pete Orr. We’re all very grateful for the work that they did.
I’m especially grateful to Pete Orr because in the final months of his stint as the stand-in host of this podcast, he recorded a whole bunch of interviews so that I would have a little bit of time to get myself sorted and organised, and there would be a few interviews and conversations to start the year.
So in this episode, we still have the lovely lilting northern Irish accent of Pete Orr having a conversation with Tania Snowdon, which I’ll tell you about in just a moment.
Next CCL event
TP: But first, a date for your diaries: our first Centre for Christian Living public event, which, this year, is going to be a slightly different format: we’re calling it an ethics workshop. Our first ethics workshop for the year will be on Wednesday 7 May here at Moore College at 7:30pm. There will be more details to come. At this stage, I’ll just tell you that the topic is going to be “Neurodivergence and the Christian life”. More about that in the coming weeks, but put the 7 th May in your diary and plan to come to our first event here at Moore College for the Centre for Christian Living for 2025.
Introducing Tania Snowdon
TP: But to this episode—in which Pete Orr talks with Tania Snowdon. Tania and her husband Mike spent quite a number of years on the mission field in Spain, and have been back in Australia now for a few years. Tania is really well-equipped to share about the whole mission experience—to speak about why you would think about going and the whole decision about whether to go overseas; the choice of where to go and how that all works; the training that you receive before you go; what the experience is like when you arrive on the mission field and start to speak the gospel into a new culture and what that’s like; how missionaries can be best supported by those of us who don’t go overseas in mission; and interestingly, what it’s like to come home from mission (the Snowdons have been back in Australia now for a few years, having returned from the mission field) and what it’s like to return to your home culture and re-enter it; and how those of us who’ve been here all along can welcome and help missionaries who are returning from their overseas service.
There’s a lot that Tania has to share, to help us and to encourage us with about the subject of mission and the Christian life. Here’s Pete Orr with Tania Snowdon.
[Music]
Peter Orr: Welcome to Moore College’s Centre for Christian Living podcast. Today, I’m joined by my friend Tania Snowdon, who works for CMS. We’re going to talk a little bit about her journey into the mission field and what she does now.
But first of all, Tania, welcome to the podcast!
Tania Snowdon: Thank you! It’s good to be here.
PO: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself—about your family background?
TS: Yeah. I’m married to Mike and we have four boys. They all have red hair. Their ages span from the littlest one, who just started Kindy, and our eldest who has just started high school. I’ve got a mum and a brother, and a family of believers around the world.
PO: Fantastic!
Conversion
PO: How did you become a Christian?
TS: Yes. I lived with my mum, my dad and my brother growing up. Mum and dad would say that they were Christians, and they tried to take us to church when I was little. I hated it. I remember once I tried to drain the car battery on a Saturday night, because I knew if it had no battery, we couldn’t go to church on a Sunday. So I was not keen. [Laughter] But then they stopped going. They didn’t really like it either.
Fast forward a few years: when I was at high school in Year 12, I went to an all-girls high school. We heard that there was this thing called the Crusader Study Camp. For me and my group of friends, our parents were very keen for us to go and study, and we were keen go and meet some boys [Laughter] from the other high schools. So in Year 12, I went on this Crusader study camp and I clearly remember: they said, “Pack a Bible.” I found a Gideon’s Bible and threw that in. We get there, and every day, there are these talks from the Bible.
The talks are on the minor prophets, so my Gideon’s Bible was useless [Laughter]. I clearly remember being so struck by this God who I had thought was maybe real, but I figured I was nice enough: if he was real, that would all be fine in the end. But I was really struck by the Book of Hosea in particular and how God is described as this loving husband of a wife who is a prostitute who rejects him and who goes after other men. I had never understood both that God was so real, present and desperate for relationship with his people, and I had never understood that by me ignoring him every day, that was essentially [Laughter] rejecting him like an adulterous wife.
That camp turned my life upside down and I finally understood what the chapel services at school talking about Jesus were on about [Laughter]. So I prayed and asked for forgiveness, and that was high school for me. I spent the first few years of Uni a little bit confused, but ended up in a great church and grew from there.
Theological study
PO: You ended up at Moore College. We overlapped at College. How did that journey happen?
TS: Yeah. I studied psychology at university. I spent the first few of my Uni years a bit confused, but God put these Christian people in my path, and I went to their church. I think they thought I wasn’t a Christian [Laughter]. I was part a Bible study and started reading the Bible for the first time, and then got involved in all these Christian camps.
I finished university, did psychology, couldn’t really find a job, so I spent two years doing part-time work, which freed me up to help out at Scripture in schools, run Crusader camps and do youth ministry, which I didn’t know was a thing. I was opening the Bible with these 12-year-old girls who were really keen, and I just thought, “Oh!” [Laughter] “What is this life?” [Laughter]
I had some good people encourage me to think about the question of “Could you do this with your whole life? I didn’t have a ten-year plan [Laughter], but I thought, “I love this, and so if people I trust think I could, maybe I’ll investigate it.”
I did MTS (ministry training apprenticeship) at the church with youth and I loved it. So after that, I really knew I wanted some more training. I think I knew that I loved ministry, but I didn’t know what I didn’t know, and I really wanted some more years in the Bible. So here I came.
Mission
PO: You come to Moore College, and a few years after Moore College, you’re getting on a plane to go to Spain. Talk about [Laughter] how you got from one to the other.
TS: Yeah. As I said, I didn’t have a ten-year plan. I meet all these young people now who seem to have all these steps and they have this path, and you hear about this pathway into ministry. That was not me at all.
I had barely been a Christian for a year and I got invited to lead on this thing called CMS (Church Missionary Society) Summer School [Laughter]. I went along. We had all these infant-aged children. But I also met all these missionaries. I did Summer School every year for the next ten years. So I think God really kept just giving me these little injections—about “The world is bigger [Laughter]. The world is bigger.”
When I did MTS, we took some of the youth from our church up to the Northern Territory to an indigenous community and visited some missionaries there. We met them, lived with them, and realised they were just people who loved Jesus—normal people living life in a different place.
So I never had a plan [Laughter] or a great conviction to go at that point. But I think God kept, I guess, lifting the veil a bit to his world.
Then when I was at College in my final year, I met this first year guy [Laughter] who was called Mike. He had a plan: his plan was to pursue going because not everyone does that. His plan was to pursue going and stay if there was a reason not to. So when we got married, I felt like God has been saying, “Well, I’ve exposed you to this over so many years.” I had said I’d be willing to go, but I’d never put my money where my mouth was [Laughter]. So that was a crucial moment.
When we got married, we were sitting in CMS Summer School, as you do, and we heard about these missionaries from Europe—most of them doing student work—and they kept saying how hard it was and how isolating it was. One guy had been walking around a campus for three months trying to find one person to talk to, and he didn’t find that person! I remember just having that feeling in my gut, going, “We need to pray for these people!” and also feeling like, “Oh, maybe we need to go [Laughter] and work alongside them.” That’s what started us having chats with CMS and somehow taking those little next steps. We ended up on a plane [Laughter].
Europe and Spain
PO: So your interest in Europe was sparked by that Summer School session. Was there any particular reason that drew you to Spain, or was that sort of the place in Europe that you could serve?
TS: That’s a good question. Mike had randomly been in a prayer group for Spain once, and he also had a UK passport. This was before Brexit. So we knew his UK passport would get us into Europe and he’d been praying for Spain.
The other factor for us was John and Jodi Lovell. I went to College with John Lovell, and in Fourth Year of College, they did this big turnaround and were headed to Spain. I think, knowing ourselves as people and hearing how isolating it was in Europe, our little desire was to go and work at least in the vicinity of someone who we knew—not to be our own little bubble, but just to support each other to be there for the long-term. John was going to do some church planting there. Our heart was for Spanish youth. Hearing about things like how in Spain as a country‚ that next generation of young people just don’t really have the chance to hear about Jesus because there aren’t youth groups in churches—and marrying all those things together in the CMS process, God worked to send us into Spain.
Life in Spain
PO: I guess many of us, when we think of Europe—when we think of Spain or Italy or France—we think of a place where we go on holiday, with beautiful beaches, sun, great food. What was it like actually living there? What were your first few years like? We’ll get onto the spiritual dimension later, but what were the actual practicalities of living in Spain?
TS: We did love it [Laughter]. Obviously Spain is not a hard place in terms of you have electricity and you have water. Lots of missionaries are sent to places where it is hard to live. We loved our time in Spain.
We did live in Valencia, so there was a beach nearby [Laughter] and there was great food. The day was quite different there: you would get up a little bit later than in Australia, but you would have your main meal at 2pm in the day. Then you’d have a little break. Then you’d go to a lot later at night. Our Bible Study would start at 9pm and then would finish, and we’d have dinner after that. That was a challenge at times.
The other quite different thing was we left with one baby and had three other boys over there. They start school really early in Spain—which I loved, actually [Laughter]. When you’re turning three in that year, you start going to school—not preschool, but school. Full-time school. You’re learning how to write and read. That was quite different.
We actually loved [Laughter] getting to know the school community. That’s a very different thing in Spain as well: we went to a little local school, so our kids did school in Spanish. We felt like the school was our family. I’m still in touch with some of the teachers on WhatsApp.
I think in general, the biggest difference was that people had more time for relationships and they had more time for people. You’d go out, you’d walk down the street, and you’d run into people. You could stop and have a chat, and it wasn’t the heads down/I’ve got to go to my next thing/I’ve got to go get my kids to this soccer game and then they’ve got this practice sort of thing. Life was just a slower pace.
Speaking Spanish
PO: How did you go with the language?
TS: Yeah. That’s a great question. When you first [Laughter] asked what it was like, our first impressions were we arrived and we couldn’t say anything. That was interesting. We spent our first year learning Spanish with a tutor in our house. I really miss speaking the language! It’s not that—scratch that; I’m not going to say it, but it’s not hard to learn [Laughter].
PO: It’s easy!
TS: Yeah, it’s easy.
PO: [Laughter] Anyone could do it!
TS: Of all the languages [Laughter], it at least has the same alphabet, right! [Laughter] But yeah, I think when you go somewhere else, it’s a real privilege to arrive and not be able to speak, because it means you can’t do anything. It means you have to watch. You have to listen. First, you listen and you don’t understand. But you can’t go and be fully functional, and make all the mistakes.
Now, obviously we made a lot of mistakes. But I think the privilege of having at least a year just watching, learning and observing—as people don’t expect us to be running a ministry because we couldn’t speak with them—that was really humbling and difficult, because we knew we couldn’t get to know people and they couldn’t know us. But I also think, “Gosh, what a privilege to be weak and humble”—humble in a forced sense, not because I’m so great [Laughter]. That was a period of growth for me and for Mike in our characters, but also it was just really helpful before we then started to try to do things.
PO: So how long was it before you could start to actually do ministry?
TS: I do remember after six months, we went to Valencia, because we started in Madrid, to help run Kids Club. I don’t know if I’d call that “doing ministry”, because that was really hard [Laughter] and it was in English.
Look, people ask how long did it take until we were fluent. I think that’s a bit of a moot point: I’d say now, I can talk to you in Spanish, but I still make mistakes. Mike preached his first sermon after 10 months, but he would say preaching a sermon was the easy part; it was the two-minute conversation with someone at morning tea [Laughter] that was the hard part. So it’s a bit hard to answer the question.
Ministry in Valencia
PO: Just speaking more widely, over time, as you were able to do more and more ministry, what did that look like? What ministry look like in Valencia?
TS: I said before we went with a heart for Spanish youth. But we also had no real job to go to. But thankfully, the IFES (International Fellowship of Evangelical Students) movement over there has a high school arm. The GBU (Grupos Bíblicos Universitarios) is the big group, and they also what’s called GBE (Grupos Bíblicos Estudiantiles), which is the high school arm.
Eventually, after we had been there two and a half years, they asked us both to become staff workers full-time, because why not? We didn’t both do that, but Mike became staffworker for the GBE. That didn’t involve going into high schools, because you’re not allowed to. But it involved meeting up with the local Christian high school-age students. Once a fortnight, we ran a bit of a combined youth group, because most of the churches don’t have youth groups.
The goal was to encourage the Christian kids to persevere in their faith, but also to encourage them to think, “You can actually open the Bible with your friends at school. You can start a group. Even though we can’t come in and do it for you, you can do that.” That was the goal of the ministry across Spain. It’s pretty small and not well-resourced. But it’s a great goal, right? Christian kids are the ones in the high schools. They’re the ones who are with their peers. They can do that.
PO: What sort of fruit did you see? What were the joys of the ministry?
TS: Essentially, I was involved in that and also did a whole bunch of other stuff. But in terms of that ministry, we did see some kids start groups. In the city that we were in, I don’t think that really took off.
It’s hard: for lots of the high school students, they’re the only Christian in their school. If you don’t have one another, it’s really hard. But there was a national camp once a year, which was such an encouragement to the Christian kids. There was a girl on that camp who we met very early on. She had just become a Christian and was all excited, and she realised, “Oh, I’m the only Christian in my high school. But if I move to this other high school, there’s another Christian or two there.” She went home from the camp, she convinced her parents to let her change high schools, and they somehow did. She then went to this new high school, it was really clear that she was a Christian from the start, and she started the group, and they started getting, I think, in the end about 20 kids along, reading the Bible. She’s now at university and in the Christian group there, persevering. So we saw little snippets of that happening across the country.
[Music]
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TP: And now let’s get back to our program.
Setbacks, challenges and discouragements
PO: Wonderful to see that. But over your time, there must have been setbacks, challenges and discouragements. What were some of those?
TS: Yeah. Look, it’s a different place. John Lovell was our minister at the church that we went to, so we had fairly Reformed [Laughter] good preaching every week. That was great! But if you think about the history of that church, when he arrived, the minister before him—well, they hadn’t had one for five years. Before him, it was a missionary sent from Latin America, I think, who was basically ungodly and did a lot of bad things. Before that, the guy in place was just really liberal. Guitars were of the devil.
At Easter, John sat in church one week and heard that Jesus didn’t really rise from the dead. There were things like that. It’s got a Catholic heritage, but people are very suspicious of religion—partly because of the dictator, I think. There’s just lots of baggage there to do with the church.
So in terms of the setbacks, I think the liberal theology was still around. We did have a guy at our church who was fairly involved, but would post the opposite of the sermon on Facebook the next day. He really didn’t believe that the Bible was the word of God. That was hard.
I think Spain is known as being hard for missionaries. We did see a lot of other people in ministry burn out and leave for different reasons. That was also really hard. We saw Christians at university give up their faith. That’s a discouragement everywhere. But I think just the hard ground was difficult: it takes a long time to build trust with people. So watching other people—workers who had been there for 10 years, 15 years—be kind of damaged by that and then leave that was hard.
Lessons
PO: In terms of Christians you met in church and other contexts, what did you learn from Spanish Christians—particularly where you thought, “Oh, this is different to what we see in Australia”?
TS: I think the main difference comes back to a cultural difference. The way that people have more time for people: that plays itself out in the church as well. We would often have lunch on Sunday every week after church. You can go out in Spain: that’s another thing I didn’t mention. There’s really cheap food when you go out. So every Sunday, we’d just be like, “Well, we’re going out to lunch. Come along whoever wants to come along”—continuing in relationships over food and over time.
We had a guy visit our church who was really surprised: he was from America. He would go out for a work lunch and after 45 minutes, he’d be like, “Right, I’ve got to go,” and the Spanish person would be like, “What do you talking about?” [Laughter] “This is not—this doesn’t exist.” They have a word for the conversation you have once you’ve eaten your food: you sit at the table for another half an hour to an hour and you talk. There’s a word for that in the language because it’s so valued.
I think I’ve learned that from Christian friends there—that trust takes a long time to build, but I think in Christian community, the way you share life with people, it comes with a lot of time.
PO: That’s wonderful!
The decision to leave
PO: So it sounds like it wasn’t necessarily always easy, but you were doing some significant ministry and growing some Christian friendships and relationships. This was important work that you were both doing. But you came to the point where you decided to come back. I know that wasn’t an easy decision. Can you tell us about that decision?
TS: Yeah. In the start of 2020, we went back to Spain for our third term. In the mission world, people often say that your third time is when you can start to do ministry. So by “term”, I mean three years. We’d been there for six or seven already; going back, we were so ready. We had got the language essentially; we had relationships; we were a part of the GBE ministry; and we had all these ideas.
Then COVID hit. That was one thing. But that didn’t bring us back; we lived through that in Spain, which is another whole conversation [Laughter]. But then the next year in June 2021, I got a call from my dad who had been diagnosed with terminal cancer.
Before we left for Spain, we had counted the cost. We worked out what are the factors, what are the obstacles, and what might bring us back if we had to. Given where my dad was in the family, my mum’s got some health problems and my brother has a disability, so my dad was looking after them. So if anything happened to any of our parents, that would be a consideration, but certainly my dad in particular. In the end, that was a kindness of God: we weren’t expecting that to happen to him, but it was a very clear diagnosis and it was a very clear person within the family.
So fairly quickly, we knew that we’d have to come back. This was during the time when you couldn’t come back to Australia. That was complicated in and of itself. Stuff in Spain had opened up. We were really excited to be there. But God made it so clear, which I’m so thankful for, that it was time, and it was good and right for us to come home.
Returning home
PO: How has it been coming back? I know often some missionaries can find that even harder than actually going onto the field in the first place.
TS: Yeah. I would change your “some” to “99 per cent” [Laughter]. Of all the people I talk to now and all the research, most people would find it the hardest of the transitions—partly because you spend a lot of time preparing to go, and, especially with CMS, you invest a lot of time, thought and conversation into going—years, usually. Coming back, it’s a much quicker turnaround and often it’s not what you planned for.
It’s been a challenging situation. With my family, it’s been hard: my dad passed away. I said earlier that my parents weren’t believers; by God’s grace, they came to faith 20 years ago, and I have absolutely no doubt that he with Jesus, which is such a comfort, and that my mum and my brother have a solid faith. That’s amazing.
It’s hard to come back, though, when our hearts were in Spain. For our kids, that’s what they knew. We bring them back here, they’re in one school for six months, then we have to move to another part of Sydney where they’re at another school. So it’s been difficult.
But God’s been really kind just in the timing of everything, providing more than what we need. The Lovells were a very good support to us in Spain, and he kindly brought them back to Australia before us [Laughter]. So it’s been difficult. Church is different. That busy-ness of people is a challenge. But God’s been good.
Life now
PO: So what does life look like now for you?
TS: Well, we’ve got four kids. That’s a little bit of time. Also, I go out to see my mum a couple of times a week just to help out. My dad’s been gone for about a year, so we’re still navigating through all of that.
But the most fun thing I get to do [Laughter] is my job at CMS. I work with enquirers in the “enquiry space”, as we call it. Initially, that sounded a bit weird: it’s such a weird word—“enquirers”; we’re in the “enquiry space”. But now I’ve understood after doing the job for 18 months that it’s a great title, because people come to me or to CMS, and they’re enquiring, “Is this something I should do? What do you think?” We are then enquiring of them: “Who are you? Who’s God made you to be?” Altogether, we’re enquiring of the fellowship and of God. It is a really question-asking time to discern what the path is.
Considerations for those wanting to go on the mission field
PO: What are some of the factors that you help people think through in terms of whether they should consider going to the mission field?
TS: Yeah. It’s a good question—one that I’m constantly thinking about. It depends on where people are up to. The great thing about my job is within the first few months, I’d met with Uni students up to retirees. Everyone’s life is different. We’ve just sent someone to France who retired and that’s what she’s doing with her retirement.
I think what we’re on about is who God has made someone to be and how solid their relationship with him is. That’s, first and foremost, what we’re keen to see. Anyone who wants to think about mission, relationship with Jesus and living that out—living out the truth that you know—that’s fundamental.
Beyond that, there are also some other things, obviously. I think having a conviction to go would be the next one that I would couch, because I think for lots of us, we know in our heads, “Yeah, mission is good. The world’s important. God wants people to know Jesus.” CMS’s slogan is “A world that knows Jesus”. We say the words, and sometimes people might think, “Oh, well, then maybe I should think about going.” But there has to be a heart. There has to be a conviction and a desire that God has placed there to go. Because if you go, you’re going to need that to stay [Laughter].
I think humility, teachability—lots of the things that you might consider when you ask yourself, “Should I d0 ministry full-time?” are the same. It’s just that when you go, you’re going to be sent by people. But it’s also going to be, in one sense, more isolating. The higher stress will mean that your sin and your temptation will all be heightened. In your marriage, how is that going? How are you going at loving your wife or your husband? How are you going with loving and caring for your kids? Or if you’re single, how much do you desire a relationship? All those things are things to consider. So it’s basically character. But the conviction is key.
Supporting missionaries
PO: Obviously most of us listening won’t end up on the mission field, but—
TS: Wait, what? [Laughter]
PO: Can you speak to the importance of supporting those from our churches and friends who’ve gone? How much did the active of support of Christians back at home mean to you when you were on the mission field?
TS: Yes! Yes! I really can. It’s just fundamental. If I’m honest, I think in lots of churches in Sydney, we do well at saying it’s important, and I wonder if those words don’t always translate into a real heart of the people in the pews for that person who goes.
The thing I love about CMS is that we’re a fellowship. We all send the missionaries; it’s not us as an organisation, but actually every person who’s at Summer School—those three thousand people—are sending the missionary. We would not have survived without the prayers of people praying for us. I just know that: I went through times when it was hard to pray or where I know that Mike and I [Laughter] were not fully leaning on the Lord, which is so important. But I know that there was truckloads of people back in Australia doing that. The way that our kids were loved and supported—that was just fundamental as well.
When people would send a little reply to our prayer letters, that was really encouraging, because you kind of dread writing them [Laughter], even though you know it’s important. But it’s so key to just remember that people who stay, they’re not just staying because it’s the default, they’re actually sending. So it’s an active partnership.
What I loved when I came back to Australia, three years earlier, we had told the story about this girl named Sada. Someone at Summer School who I didn’t know, three years later, came up to me and said, “Oh, now, how’s Sada?” That was amazing—not just for me, but then, when I could go back to Spain, I told Sada. It’s not just you’re partnering with the missionary, you’re partnering with brothers and sisters there. It’s a real thing!
Conclusion
PO: Wonderful, Tania. That’s so encouraging. I’m thankful to God for how he used you and Mike in Spain, but also back here. It’s really great and encouraging to hear all of that, so thanks for being on the podcast.
TS: No worries!
[Music]
TP: Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Centre for Christian Living podcast from Moore College. For a whole lot more from the Centre for Christian Living, just head over to the CCL website: ccl.moore.edu.au, where you’ll find a stack of resources including every past podcast episode all the way back to 2017, videos from our live events and articles that we’ve published through the Centre.
While you’re there on the website, we also have an opportunity for you to make a tax deductible donation to support the ongoing work of the Centre here at Moore College.
We’d also love you to subscribe to the podcast and to leave a review so that people can discover our podcast and our other resources. We always love and benefit from receiving your feedback and questions. Please get in touch: you can email us at ccl@moore.edu.au.
Many thanks to Karen Beilharz from the Communications Team here at Moore College for all her work in transcribing, editing and producing this podcast; to James West for the music; and to you, dear listeners, for joining us each week.
Thank you for listening. I’m Tony Payne. Bye for now!
[Music]
Photo by William Carletti on Unsplash
