In the past, people used to date by asking each other out and getting to know each other over coffee, a meal or some other activity. But these days, many people use dating apps as a way of meeting others. How should we navigate this area as Christians? What are the strengths and weaknesses of this approach? What are the dangers we need to be aware of?
Jocelyn Bignill, Assistant Minister at All Saints in Petersham, Sydney, has been working on an unpublished article about dating apps, and in this episode, Peter Orr talks to her about the challenges and obstacles Christians might face when using them. It’s an important subject—not just for those who are in a stage of life where they may be using these apps, but also for those of us who have grown-up children who might need guidance in how to navigate this tricky area.
Links referred to:
- Upcoming ethics workshop: “Neurodivergence and the Christian life” (Wed 7 May 7:30pm)
- Episode 132: The gift of rest with Jocelyn Bignill
- Support the work of the Centre
Please note: Jocelyn Bignill’s article on dating apps, which Peter Orr refers to in this interview, is currently unpublished.
Runtime: 26:28 min.
Transcript
Please note: This transcript has been edited for readability.
Introduction
Tony Payne: Hello again! I’m Tony Payne. Welcome to the Centre for Christian Living podcast here at Moore College. It’s really great to be with you again as we try to bring biblical ethics to everyday issues.
Today’s everyday issue is dating apps. Now, that’s two words that I’m not used to putting together: “dating”, which, from what I can remember when dating was a thing that was in my life, you met somebody, and if you liked them, you asked them out for a coffee or dinner or something, and that was getting to know someone—going on a date. But apparently now, it all happens via apps.
In this conversation between Pete Orr and Jocelyn Bignill, who’s done quite a bit of thinking on this topic, the topic is about how Christian should think about online dating in this kind of way. Many, many Christian people—younger people, especially, of course—use dating apps as a way of meeting people, and Christians do this as well. How should we navigate this area as Christians? What are the strengths and weaknesses of this approach, and what are the dangers to be aware of?
It’s an important subject, and not just for those of us who are in the stage of life where it’s directly relevant to us and to how we meet people and get to know people through dating, but also for those of us who maybe have kids who are getting to that point in life, where this is going to be relevant from them as well—helping our young adult and growing kids navigate this tricky area. I do hope you find this conversation on dating apps between Pete Orr and Jocelyn Bignill useful.
[Music]
Introduction
Peter Orr: Hello! Welcome to the Centre for Christian Living podcast. Today, I’m joined by my friend Jocelyn Bignill. This is the second time you’ve been on the podcast, Joss! [Ed: For the first, see episode 132: The gift of rest.] You’re one of the ministers at All Saints Petersham. Last time you told a little bit about how you became a Christian. Why don’t you start by telling us a little bit about ministry at All Saints—particularly your own ministry?
Jocelyn Bignill: Hi Pete! Thanks so much for having me. I really love being at All Saints. This is my sixth year as the Assistant Minister, and I got to be the student minister two years before that as well. I’m an Assistant Minister in every sense of the word in that I’m in a very generalist kind of role. I assist the minister and the ministry at All Saints, and that looks different every day, every week, in lots of different things.
I oversee youth and children’s ministry. I’m particularly invested in women’s discipleship. I get to do a lot of the background work in shaping the services and the music. I teach Scripture. I run a Growth Group, I help organise the Growth Groups and I write the Bible studies. I could go on. There’s lots and lots of different, wonderful things that I get to do.
Why write about dating apps?
PO: You also present some great talks and you even write articles [Laughter]. We’re going to talk about an article that you are writing. It’s on dating apps. That’s not something I’ve thought a lot about.
JB: I’m glad to hear it. [Laughter]
PO: Why did you write the article on dating apps?
JB: Dating apps a relatively new phenomenon, if we’re thinking in terms of our life histories or a generational history. So I think we haven’t done a lot of thinking about them as Christians. I think that that means that there’s some danger there for us as Christians in not having thought this through well.
Dating apps present all kinds of challenges and obstacles, so as Christians, we really need to reflect on the question of “Is this a helpful platform for us to be engaging with?” If it is, “How do I engage with dating apps wisely, in a way that’s going to help me to continue to grow in my godliness and Christian character?”
That’s true for people who are using them. But in my own role as a pastor, I’m thinking about people in my congregation and church family, and I’m thinking about other pastors as well, and whether they’ve thought this through, and how they are helping people in their churches, discipling them through this process of using dating apps and whether or not it’s a good idea. I think there’s a gap in our thinking and our reflection at the moment.
PO: Yeah. When we first talked about it, that was the thing that really struck me: if we want to be caring for people in our churches and this is the world that we live in, we need to be helping people to think about this reality in a Christian way.
You don’t need to go on dating apps
PO: The article is so helpful, and you start in a slightly surprising place: you start by saying you don’t need to go on dating apps. What did you mean by that?
JB: [Laughter]I think that if you’re a single person (I’m a single person, for context), as a single person, you can feel pressure—that you have to go on a dating app. If you’re serious about wanting to meet someone, then you’ve got to be on a dating app, because that’s the only way people meet now. I think people can feel really pressured into using dating apps, and that’s really unhelpful.
God will work in our lives regardless of whether it’s through an app or not. You’re not going to go on an app and instantly meet the love of your life. This is not the thing that God is waiting for you to do to meet a partner. But it can feel like—or we can have that message from other people—that if you were really serious about wanting to meet someone, you would go on an app. You don’t need to do that. That’s not true.
So if you’re feeling pressured to try dating apps, you don’t need to. You can say “No” to people speaking that into your life. You might decide, “Actually, dating apps are not a good platform for me to be on. They’re going to make me feel anxious. They’re going to make me feel discontent. They are just not a helpful way for me to engage with people,” and that’s a good decision to make. So one side of the equation is I think that people can feel pressured.
PO: Have you seen that in your experience? With people you’ve ministered to, have you seen this—that they feel this kind of pressure to engage in this area?
JB: Yeah, definitely. At our church in particular, we have lots of single women—younger and older. There is a little bit of a feeling of, “Am I ever going to meet someone?”, and people express that. That’s a really normal and okay way to feel.
I think, then, they can feel like, “Well, I have to be doing this or I’m not actually giving it a go.” I’m definitely seeing that among people at my church, and I’ve felt that pressure myself as well. It’s been suggested to me to use dating apps by a number of people in ways that they are wanting to be helpful, and I’m not averse to being suggested that. But I certainly don’t anyone to feel pressured.
PO: So, no pressure. You don’t need to go on dating apps.
You can go on dating apps
PO: But you also argue in the article that you cango on a dating app.
JB: Yeah. Certainly. The other side of the equation is that it can feel like maybe Christians shouldn’t use these apps. I think that maybe if we haven’t thought through dating apps or don’t know a lot about them, the Christian conservative thing is to jump to the conclusion of “Oh, we just shouldn’t use them” without really exploring the idea of this kind of platform or technology.
I would say yes, Christians can use dating apps—with the caveat that we need to do a lot of thought and exercise a lot of wisdom and discernment, and be really careful, because they are a place where we can be tempted to sin. They are a place where we can be tempted to make unwise decisions that are going to hinder our Christian growth. But they can also be a place where you start a really wonderful relationship. Just because there are some inherent stumbling blocks, I don’t think that means that Christians should not use dating apps.
Using dating apps in a godly way
PO: So what’s a godly way to use a dating app?
JB: The first thing that I want to assert, and I believe this very strongly and think that every Christian should believe this, is that Christians date Christians. Not only do Christians date Christians, but they date mature Christians whose lives are shaped by the gospel. When you’re on a dating app, be really up front about your faith. When you’re looking at other people’s profiles, be looking for not only have they ticked the Christian/religious box, but how is their love for Jesus reflected in their profile?
If they’re saying that their favourite Sunday activity is sleeping in, having brunch and going to the beach, that might not be someone who’s actually engaged in a church family. If there’s no other sign of loving Jesus or pursuing God in their profile, then I think it’s pretty safe to conclude, “This is not someone who’s very serious about their faith and not someone I should be looking to enter into a relationship with.” When they tick a whole bunch of other boxes, this might be more tempting than it seems. If you’re getting really frustrated with the apps, or you’ve been on there for a while and things haven’t been working out, it’s easy to start compromising on core things like that.
PO: I guess that applies, obviously, outside of using the app, but maybe in that context where you’re feeling the pressure, it’s much more tempting to go to down that line.
JB: Yeah. You’re expressing an interest and an availability; they’re expressing an interest and an availability. They might have liked your profile, so they’re specifically expressing an interest in you. You’ve made it really obvious on your profile that you’re a follower of Jesus. They might see that and still not think it’s very important [Laughter]. Because of all the other amazing things they see about you on that profile, they might downplay your faith, even though you’ve made it really obvious and up front.
Wise approaches to using dating apps
PO: That’s the kind of core, non-negotiable aspect. In the article, you talk about some sort of sensible, wise approaches to using the apps. Do you want to talk about some of those?
JB: Another thing I think we undervalue as Christians, and don’t think about enough in our relationships, is emotional intimacy. I read a really helpful book on [Laughter] dating that said when you’re dating someone, you’re not looking to grow in intimacy with them, but in clarity. Is this someone who I want to marry? Is this a person who is wise for me to pursue a relationship with? I think that’s a really helpful framework and way of thinking when you’re approaching dating apps. I don’t want to grow in intimacy with this person; I want to grow in clarity about whether or not this is someone I should date.
That can be true in our real life relationships as well. When you’re having lots of long, late-night conversations where you’re both in your beds—when you’re sending pictures to each other or sharing things with each other—you can get really emotionally invested in a relationship that has really just been a few texts backwards and forwards. This can lead down all kinds of unhelpful roads.
For one thing, you don’t know what other conversations this person is having. You might be really emotionally invested, and women are more vulnerable to this. Men are too in some ways, but I think women are particularly vulnerable to this. So you might be feeling like you’re having a really deep connection with this person, but actually they’re making that connection with a number of other people at the same time. You can end up really baring your soul and then be quite heartbroken.
These apps can be quite depersonalising: it can feel like you’re not connecting with a real person, and it’s very easy to treat people poorly. You might be the victim of that. But you also might be the perpetrator. You might be the one who’s connecting and being emotionally vulnerable and intimate with a number of people at once, and really hurting people. It’s really easy to not see people as fully fledged, made-in-the-image-of-God human beings, but to see them all as only having value in the potential they have to be a partner to you.
PO: That’s very helpful—that idea that you’re looking for clarity, rather than intimacy.
Meeting online, not dating online
PO: You have a part a little bit later in the article that I think flows on, where you talk about meeting online, not dating online. Do you want to say something about that?
JB: Yeah. That’s another line that I stole from somebody else [Laughter] that I thought was helpful. I think it’s good to not keep that relationship online for an extended period of time. Don’t be messaging backwards and forwards for weeks on end; make a time to meet up.
Now, again, particularly if you’re a woman, you need to be careful to be safe in the way you do that. This is a stranger—someone you do not know. So you need to meet in a public place; you need to meet during the day time; you need to arrive and leave separately, and not give them any kind of specific idea of where you live or work. Those are just basic safety things—particularly for women, but men, you can consider that as well.
Also, you need to let people know that you’re meeting up with someone—where you’ll be, when you’ll be meeting with them—just to make sure you’ve got everything in place to be safe.
I’d also recommend keep your conversation within the app, rather than exchanging numbers, because if something happens that is a negative experience, then you can report that within the app. But if they want to go over to messaging on your phone numbers instead, they might un-match with you on the app and then you have no way of keeping them accountable for their actions. Whereas if you remain in the app, you can keep them accountable for the way they’ve acted.
But having said all that—all those caveats and safety things—meet up in person and have a conversation. A whole night of texting backwards and forwards can amount to about ten minutes of actual dialogue. So it’s really helpful to have a real conversation and flesh out who this person is a bit more. You might meet up once and go, “That’s not who I thought that person was. That’s actually not someone I want to spend more time with.” That’s a successful result.
But it helps you to see them as a three-dimensional person and see their demeanour. It’s much easier to craft an image within an app. Old dating websites were these huge, in-depth profiles that people spent hours making. Now you can spend five minutes, put up a few flattering photos, make a couple of witty remarks, and you can start connecting with other people, which means you don’t get a filled-out picture of that other person at all.
Then I would say if you’re pursuing and continuing in that relationship, try and hang out with them in the context of other people. Go out with a group of their friends. Go out with a group of your friends. See how they interact with other people.
One of the great things about dating someone you already know is that you’ve gotten to see them in a different context. Dating someone from church is a great idea, because you’ve seen them serving, you’ve seen them listening to sermons (or not), you’ve seen them interacting with other people at church—people who might be their mates; people who might not be their mates; you’ve seen them serving. You get a much fuller of picture of someone when you’re seeing them on a regular basis. Dating apps add that extra obstacle of having to figure out who this person is when you’re starting from a point of isolation: it’s just you and this other person.
PO: It’s at piece with our modern ways of relating, though: some of our relationships happen online now, and there are some positives, but there are a lot of negatives to that. In addition, when you add that on the complexity of dating, that can make things tricky.
JB: Yep, definitely. There can be a lack of accountability as well. This one of the areas where we can fall into dangers. For one thing, you can pursue a relationship with a person who you really know is not wise. Maybe they’re not very strong in their faith, or not a Christian at all. Maybe there are other red flags that come up about their character or your compatibility, but you’ve connected with them and you just don’t want to give that up, because it feels like it’s been so hard to gain that connection, so you’re willing to ignore those things. If you’re not dating them in any kind of wider context—if your friends aren’t seeing them and their friends are not seeing you—then it can be easy to kind of put your blinkers on, ignore those things and keep going.
We also are tempted to fall into sexual sin. Again, that disconnection of screen to screen can lead us down roads and make us ignore things that maybe we’d be more sensitive to if we were physically present with each other. You can send explicit photos to each other, you can send explicit messages to each other, and it feels like you really haven’t done anything that bad, because it wasn’t in person. But that’s still sexual sin that needs to be repented of.
If you have done that—if you’re someone who’s engaged with dating apps and you’ve done things you regret, ask God for forgiveness. He freely offers his forgiveness. We do not need to stay in guilt and shame because of that sin. But also, talk to somebody else about it: talk to a trusted, mature Christian friend. Talk to your pastor or minister and loop them in. It might be a good idea for you to take a break from dating apps, if that’s been the case. You might be in a relationship that’s not very wise—that you want to figure out a way out of.
Don’t leave that sin in the dark. Dating apps can feel very secret and very private, and like things are hidden from God, because they’re not happening out in the open—in real life. But they’re still happening, and that sexual sin is still very real, even if it’s digital.
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Advertisement
TP: Hello, I’m Tony Payne. It’s great to be back at the Centre for Christian Living as the Director of CCL. This year, we’ve got two events coming up in May and in October. They’re going to be a little bit different from the events of the past few years: they’re going to be less of a talk, followed by a discussion, and more of a workshop—a biblical ethics workshop—where we work together through all the material and think through what it means to think as a Christian about this topic.
On 7 May, our first ethics workshop for the year is going to be on neurodivergence—it’s a hard word to say, isn’t it: “Neurodivergence and the Christian life”. We’ve all got experience of this phenomenon or these conditions in our lives, in our families and extended families, and in our churches—people whose brains work differently. It might be given names like Autism Spectrum Disorder or ADHD, but this phenomenon of thinking differently about the world and of having brains that function in different ways—stronger in some things; much weaker in others—this is something that more and more of us are having to deal with and understand, and respond to as Christians in a way that’s driven by the gospel.
If you want to think through that question together—“What does it mean to respond to neurodivergence as a Christian and with the gospel and in our churches?”—come along on 7 May to our first ethics workshop for the year here at Moore College. I look forward to seeing you there. You can get all the details at ccl.moore.edu.au.
TP: And now let’s get back to our program.
Establishing healthy habits around dating apps
PO: In part of the article, you talk about establishing healthy habits. What are some of the habits that you think are important to establish?
JB: I think, like any social media, app or smartphone technology, dating apps really play into that addictive quality. The swiping, the scrolling—all of that taps into—I heard someone say it’s the same part of our brain that poker machines tap into. It’s really addictive and it’s hard to stop yourself, so you need to be putting in place some boundaries for yourself so that you’re engaging with dating apps in a helpful way.
I can’t dictate what those might be. You can think of those for yourself: you know yourself and the places that you might fall into that addiction or temptation. But some suggestions might be that you don’t use dating apps late at night. Maybe you set a time limit: after 9pm, I don’t use that app anymore. Maybe you just have one point in a day when you’re going to check the app, look at a few profiles, see if you’ve had anyone respond to your profile—in a 15 minute-window. Maybe you only use it for a short period of time at a time—for a month, and then you switch it off and take breaks from it.
I would say definitely put a boundary in place that you don’t use a dating app when you’re with another person, so you’re not letting your online engagement with people interrupt your real-life relationships with other people.
You might also choose to stay on the free version of the app that you’re using, because then they will put limits on how many profiles you can view, and how many responses you can give to people. That could be a good external way of putting boundaries in place.
If you’re feeling anxious, if you’re feeling discontent, if you’re really struggling because you’re using a dating app—I think the thing about this kind of platform is you’re opening a door: you’re kind of saying, “I’m ready and open for a relationship” in a way that you might if you met someone that you liked. So if I meet someone, I feel attracted to them, I want to tell them that I like them, I want to spend more time with them, when you do that, you’re opening a door and you’re making yourself vulnerable. It might work out well, or you might end up hurt. That’s fine. That’s how relationships and life works. When you go on a dating app, you’re opening that door in that same way, but not to a particular person; just to a general idea that there might be someone on this platform who you can connect with. That can leave you with a lot of anxiety, a lot discontentment, and maybe feeling depressed, disconnected and lonely, and all these other things.
So maybe if that happens to you (and this doesn’t happen for everyone; some people are much more cool and casual than I am), but if this doeshappen for you, maybe you say, “Dating apps aren’t for me. This is actually affecting my mental health and my spiritual health too much. I need to not use these.” Great: you’ve given it a go and you’ve decided it’s not for you. Or maybe you just need to put some of those boundaries in place and say, “I’m going to try it for a month, and then I’m going to have a break,” and just see how different you feel after turning that off.
I think be honest with yourself; have other people who are checking in with where you’re at; and check in with yourself as well to make sure that you’re tracking all right in all those different facets and ways.
PO: That’s really helpful, Joss. As you say, there’s real Christian freedom. There’s lots of wisdom needed.
Married Christians supporting single Christians
PO: A word to married people in our churches as we support those who are single who are navigating these complexities—perhaps in a way that single Christians 20 years ago didn’t have to navigate these complexities. How can we support our single brothers and sisters in our churches?
JB: I think be willing to ask questions. I’m never offended if someone asks me, “Have you met someone? How are you feeling about being single at the moment?” I always really appreciate when my friends ask me those questions. I don’t want them to ask them every time we meet up. It’s not the only thing going on in my life! [Laughter] But I like being asked questions by the people who care about me. So don’t be afraid to ask questions and check in. And if someone has told you, “I’m using this dating app,” ask them how they’re going with that; if they’ve met people; if they’re being safe; how they’re feeling. Are their habits healthy? Asking questions is really helpful.
But also, just include single people in your life. I think it’s very easy—particularly for young married couples—to fall into a trap of only wanting to hang out with other young married couples, because it’s comfortable and easy. But I’m so, so grateful for the friends that I have who have made me part of their families. They come into my home and I go into their home. I’m part of their kids’ lives and get to be there for all kinds of special things. I’m godparent to a couple of beautiful kids as well, and love that relationship I get to have with them.
Just be friends. All of us need friends, whether we’re single or not. Be intentional. Look outside of your own family circle, which is so easy to be consumed by, and include other people in your family and in your life. I think that’s particularly important for single people to have those kind of relationships.
If you’re a single person and you don’t have anyone that you have that relationship with, then look for a family or a couple who you could say to, “Hey, can I come over for dinner?” or “Do you want to come over to mine?” Look for a family that you connect with naturally—people who you like and vice versa—and seek to form that kind of relationship.
Conclusion
PO: Brilliant. That’s so helpful. Thank you for writing this and applying the gospel—applying Christian principles—to something that, on the surface, seems quite complex and so removed from the Bible, but actually, as you’ve shown, the wisdom that the Scriptures give us apply here as they do in any circumstance. Thanks very much, Joss!
JB: You’re so welcome, Pete.
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TP: Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Centre for Christian Living podcast from Moore College. For a whole lot more from the Centre for Christian Living, just head over to the CCL website: ccl.moore.edu.au, where you’ll find a stack of resources including every past podcast episode all the way back to 2017, videos from our live events and articles that we’ve published through the Centre.
While you’re there on the website, we also have an opportunity for you to make a tax deductible donation to support the ongoing work of the Centre here at Moore College.
We’d also love you to subscribe to the podcast and to leave a review so that people can discover our podcast and our other resources. We always love and benefit from receiving your feedback and questions. Please get in touch: you can email us at [email protected].
Many thanks to Karen Beilharz from the Communications Team here at Moore College for all her work in transcribing, editing and producing this podcast; to James West for the music; and to you, dear listeners, for joining us each week.
Thank you for listening. I’m Tony Payne. Bye for now!
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Photo by Alexander Sinn on Unsplash.
